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[mandrakeroot]

Mandrake here.

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[mandrakeroot]

"As I said, there's a very different burden of proof. If someone says 'good morning', I say 'good morning'. I don't demand detailed verification under cross examination. I'm fully capable of having a simple conversation, because they generally don't involve claims of important facts." Not that he's against being alienated from other people, on a personal level, but, professionally, he knows how to do his job.

[lestercraft]

"So in discussions that contain actual facts or confirmation of matters, you cannot take it on faith that the person before you would tell you the outright truth." He can understand it, but by God that's a frustrating way to live. "Even if it would serve them no purpose to obfuscate or misrepresent this information."

[mandrakeroot]

"I can't take it on faith, but I can take it on prior knowledge of the person." Sometimes even depending on subject, or he wouldn't be able to get as much done reading. "If I don't know someone, how could I be sure that they wouldn't consider that saying something false would help them? People do things that serve no purpose all the time."

[lestercraft]

"So," he holds his hand up in a sort of pause motion, like he's trying to line everything up. "Disregarding your cordiality for a moment. You have no faith in any new persons, whatsoever. Until such a point that they can verify what they're trying to tell you - no matter what the fact, or the reason for it."

[mandrakeroot]

He thinks about that for a moment. It's inexact, but as a rough summary of his approach to the world - "Or I can verify what they're saying. Sometimes it's quite straightforward."

[lestercraft]

"And what if it's not?" His tone isn't hasty, but his questioning is relentless. "What if there's no way to verify the fact? Does this invalidate the person in your mind entirely, for being unable to substantiate their claims, or merely the fact itself?"

[mandrakeroot]

"It depends on the circumstances. I can't imagine very many facts that are important enough to have an effect on my impression of someone that couldn't be verified in some fashion. I'm not sure what one of those could be, unless we move to the territory of subjective 'facts', where it's a different matter again. If it's an argument made in - lets say - a philosophical discussion, than what matters is if it's a reasonable argument. I might not agree, but that doesn't mean that the person isn't worth listening to."

[lestercraft]

"I have noticed that," he says, and there's an approving warmth in his tone. "You've been quite reasonable with our discussion so far, and I greatly appreciate it."

He gives a thoughtful hum. "Could you give me an example of the sort of arguments you have where you have had a fact, one you'd deem important, unverifiable in a way that has impacted on your relationship with someone? Here or back home."

[mandrakeroot]

He pauses for a long moment. There's a straightforward answer, but Arthur has seemed reasonable, so far. The only way to verify that sort of judgement is to test it.

"I wouldn't say I've had arguments that have shaped my relationship with someone because they've offered unverifiable facts. I've had an argument that was based on being lied to, where I suppose you could say the unverifiable fact was if they truly believed it was something that didn't matter or that they weren't really lying."

[lestercraft]

Arthur just nods. That still sounds perfectly reasonable to him.

"So the issue becomes that of subjectivity. That you couldn't tell whether the fact was indeed fact, perhaps? Or that they were lying to you without your being able to confirm as much?"

[mandrakeroot]

"Sometimes it's obviously faked. But I don't like -" He breaks off, frowning as he tries to pin down the right words. "Subjective things are subjective. That doesn't mean they're not important or real. A lot of time, people act more on subjective opinion than anything else. But I don't like when people act like there's no difference, in an argument."

[lestercraft]

He gives an affirmative hum, but his tone is disparaging when he says, "People who treat their subjective opinions as objective truths of the world, and then have the audacity to tell anyone who points that out that this opinion is the only way the world works. Utter hypocrisy."

[mandrakeroot]

He shrugs in a rustle of cloth. "Though, usually, speaking only of my experience, it's not really something that happens during an argument. People just tell you how they've decided the world works and what's going to happen to you, and either they're strong enough to make it the truth that matters or they're not." He doesn't like it, but his tone is just matter of fact. He's had a great history with people in positions of authority over him.

[lestercraft]

"The problem is, it's not just individuals deciding that. It's a collective power, that these people are subscribed to that gives them this perceived immunity to their own weakness."

Guess who's familiar with the rancid vibes you're serving him, Nathaniel.

"Might I ask what company these figures were involved with that prompted them to treat you like this?"

Like, he knows that kids get the short end of the stick. Fuck knows he's been there. And he can name the exact institute that did it to him; he'd curious who did this to Nathaniel.

[mandrakeroot]

That it's a matter of collective is the problem, though, of course, also the solution. Once he has enough power, then no one can hurt or control him. To be safe, you have to be strong.

"Company?" Everyone with power, of course. He supposes that it might be different among commoners, though he can't really picture it. "My - former boss was aware enough of his own mediocrity that he was always looking for someone to blame, but it was the same with my master. Both of them, I suppose."

[lestercraft]

A fifteen year old having a job wasn't unusual. That he referred to his previous employer as his master was.

"You're an apprentice, then? Under what trade?"

[mandrakeroot]

"I was a magician's apprentice, but I'm a full fledged magician now."

In all the ways that matter, anyway.

[lestercraft]

"A magician?"

Well he's definitely interested now. Even if a part of his mind is revolting at the idea that he's somehow managed to get a tiny little madman for his first inmate. Suddenly a lot of his logic made sense.

"What does that entail, exactly?"

[mandrakeroot]

"Yes, a magician."

He gives Arthur a suspicious - and completely wasted - look.

"I don't know what it's like on your world, but on my Earth, magic has always been known and used. No one's sneaking down a back alley or somehow hiding demons behind a bookshelf." He can understand worlds where magic doesn't exist, but worlds with magic where it's hidden strike him as ridiculous. "As a magician, I wield magic in service of protecting Britain and the empire." His words would be rote if it weren't for the genuine belief.

[lestercraft]

Perks of being blind: immune to shitty little greasers.

"In my world, magic is the sole purview of creatures from beyond the realm of humanity, and those who would be so bold or- or reckless as to tap into their powers to try and gain control of those, to their own ends. Those who follow these paths will almost certainly fall prey to something so impossible to fathom that even attempting to understand it could drive a man to insanity."

And also they're right assholes about it.

[mandrakeroot]

"It sounds like in your world, you'd be stupid to pursue magic. So I'm sure there are plenty who do."

Arthur's words are nice and dramatic, but so blatantly a different situation than what Nathaniel's used to that he doesn't feel any need to defend the good name of magicians.

That every world has a large collection of idiots isn't exactly new information.

[lestercraft]

That makes him snort. "Stupid or obsessed with power and little else. Frankly I don't see much of a difference."

Of course there's stupid people in every universe. His John would argue he's one of them sometimes, with the decisions he makes.

[mandrakeroot]

"If you have repeated evidence that it drives you insane, then there is no difference between thinking it'll grant you power and stupidity."

There's nothing wrong with wanting power, but the point is so you can do something with it.

"Being a magician can be dangerous, of course. There's a reason we have extensive training, after all. But it's not going to drive anyone mad. Get a leg ripped off because you failed to read basic instructions, possibly."

Stupid people in every universe and in every profession.

[lestercraft]

"Ah, but therein lies the problem. This form of magic, these creatures that people try and use to power themselves. The majority of the human populace isn't aware they exist - it's sheer dumb luck that I happened to learn about it myself."

Not that he's at the point where he's learned that's an outright fabrication.

"And frankly they're rather better for not knowing. To have one of them be aware of you in some way is enough to land yourself in the way of incredible harm." He hums dryly. "Though perhaps my relationship with my John is different in some way, seeing as he himself was being actively sought after by an immensely powerful being of pure madness."

[mandrakeroot]

'John Doe' provides at least five reasons that Nathaniel would rather stick to his last name.

"That's exactly why it's much more sensible to have a system. And if you can't have a workable system because of those who have any talent at it being driven insane or dying, then there's all the proof you need of poor planning."

He's perfectly capable of being polite, and he feels that not engaging in the nature of the demon Arthur's sharing space with is the best way to remain polite.